Patriots vs. Yankees

[MarylandFanatic]

Ok hopefully you New Englanders will not kill me for this topic...but...does anyone else notice any similarities between SG's (and by extension Patriots fans) dismissals of the Colts and Manning..and the pre-2004 Yankees dismissals of the Red Sox.

"here's the bottom line: Manning and the Colts had a chance to beat the Patriots three times over the past 13 months ... and they couldn't do it"- SG 12/10/2004


Sounds an awful lot like 26-0 and the 1918 chant to me. Don't get me wrong I hate the Yankees....I just think it curious that people like to play the disrespected underdog card when its the Red Sox, but when they put on their Patriots gear they disrespect everyone else. What do you all think?

[Snake]

The difference is in the qualities of the players. The Colts simply can't play defense. They're going to have to go into Foxboro in the snow, which means that Peyton's aerial assault that looks so great in the dome is going to be slowed down, and unlike the 2003 Sox who battled adversity and who we knew had better things ahead of them, this Colts team has peaked. Don't look now, but Manning is pushing 30 and Harrison is already on the wrong side of 30. I don't believe that it's impossible for the Colts to beat the Patriots, but the Colts team as currently constituted is not championship caliber and not on the Patriots or Steelers level.

[TAbbott]

The difference is the Colts are not a complete team; they can be utterly horrific on 'D' on any given Sunday. Once all of the mid-season trades were complete for the Sox, they had the total package. Starting pitching, bullpen, bats in the line up, players that could actually play some in the field, and a relatively deep bench. There wasn't a gaping hole (is this an appropriate time to use 'manning'?) you could point to in their line up, while one exists with the Colts.

[Tecmo Bo]

I'm trying to talk myself out of it, but I think Maryland may be right, to an extent. The Colts are a limited team because of their D, for the Sox, they had often been limited because of some missing element. Bullpen, or Defense or Rotation. This year they were a complete team and could best be compared to the Pats. in their game by game focus.
That said, the Pats have never had the attitude of the MFY's. They've always emphasized why they can be beat, they don't have a sense of entitlement, destiny or any of that crap.

[JohnnySaves18]

I agree with TecmoBo, the Pats don't talk about how they will always win...they know they can be beat and don't look past anyone. If anything they're the anti-Yankees because they have a tremendous amount of respect for every opponent they face--not just the good ones.

Finally, the Colts are the ones that keep talking about how they're the better team after every loss to the Pats, which reminds at least me of the Yanks when the Sox beat them. But thats just Johnny speaking...

[bringbackthewhalers]

I just think it curious that people like to play the disrespected underdog card when its the Red Sox, but when they put on their Patriots gear they disrespect everyone else. What do you all think?

I agree with Maryland about the similarities but not that particular statement. The Pats and Pats fans were still playing the disrespected underdog card this year. After the first SB win we were still dismal in Madden and dismissed as a fluke, Brady finally started getting respect after his 2nd SB MVP award and they still have a shortage of Pro-Bowlers every year though many of them deserve it. On one hand it plays into the team concept that they've succeeded with so much, but I think they use it to still go out there every Sunday with a 'they still dont respect us attitute'

Think of what Simmons said last week about what people would be saying if Marvin was doing what Troy Brown is doing right now...

[MarylandFanatic]

I dunno, I guess being an outsider I don't see it that way. All I know is whenever the Pats are on TV, the announcers go way out of their way to praise Belichick and the Pats. Not that they don't deserve praise. I just don't see the disrespect you guys claim.

[bringbackthewhalers]

All I know is whenever the Pats are on TV, the announcers go way out of their way to praise Belichick and the Pats.

Trust me, it's a new phenomenon. Up until last year I had to listen to the games on WBCN and watch on TV cuz the announcers were so terrible, it's nice to see them receiving some well-deserved respect

[Snake]

I dunno, I guess being an outsider I don't see it that way. All I know is whenever the Pats are on TV, the announcers go way out of their way to praise Belichick and the Pats. Not that they don't deserve praise. I just don't see the disrespect you guys claim.

You can't trust the national announcers. They're just shills. According to them Mike Sherman is a brilliant coach and Dave Wannstedt was a victim of circumstance. Until the Colts are able to bring a competitive D (which from what I understand wins championships) they won't be able to handle the Pats, and they won't even be able to bring a competitive D (or Edge James for that matter) with Peyton and Marvin taking up so much of the cap.

[TheWolf]

I'm trying to look at this with as unbiased an opinion as possible. I realize that's completely impossible, because I live and die with the Sox and Pats, but I'm trying... I can see the similarities between the two circumstances, but I'd much rather emphasize the differences. I don't think anyone views the Colts as disprespected underdogs. They don't go into games against the Pats saying, "How come no one thinks we can beat them?" Instead, they come out of the games saying, "We should have won because we're better." Any lack of respect is well deserved and probably their own fault. Three times in the last year and a half, they've had a chance to beat the Pats, and every time they came up short because they simply weren't the better team. Yet, every time they claimed they actually were the better team. They come off looking like whiny little bitches, and they therefore don't deserve any respect.

Also, Pats fans aren't like Yankee fans. We don't walk around taunting the Colts about how long it's been since they won anything. Rather, we point to the obvious facts: the Colts have an abysmal defense that can't stop anyone, and Manning looks considerably less spectacular against teams with good defenses. I don't want to discount what he's done this season, because it's amazing, but just take a look at his stats against teams that are in the top half of the league defensively compared to those in the bottom half. It's a pretty bid disparity.

I'm not saying for a second that the Colts are incapable of beating the Patriots. I'm simply saying that the Pats are a much more complete team, and that's why they beat them consistently. This could certainly be changed, but I don't think most people expect it to. It's not because the Pats have their number, or have any sort of emotional advantage or anything; they're simply a better team because they're a more complete team, and they'll always be favored over the Colts for that reason.

[MarylandFanatic]

I guess I can buy that cuz in 99 and 03 when the Sox had chances to put away the Yanks in the ALCS and failed most Sox fans responded by saying that they knew the team would lose, because they always do, they didnt claim to be a better team.

I'm still stuck on the contrast between the fans' attitude though. Take Philadelphia, those fans they boo all their teams because they know they suck, and always will. Even if the Eagles are 13-1, they will choke and lose in the playoffs. Same goes for the Phillies, Flyers and 76ers. But New Englanders are so different in how they act depending on whether its football or baseball season. Its weird.

[Gaylord]

i notice some similarities between the fans, maybe its just because both teams are good and Im not saying this about anyone in particular cuz I know there are a lot of true fans, but both the yanks and patriots have a crap load of frontrunner fans. Where were all the Patriot fans back when they sucked, even the sports guy himself didn't mention the patriots for about 3 years before they won in 2001. Now every other article he mentions how he wants to have a 3way with brady and hench. Just easier to love a winner I guess. But with the Red Sox, they've always had their fans, through thick and thin, everyone up there lives and dies with that team. It isn't the same with the Pats.

[MarylandFanatic]

I'm not denying that Red Sox fans love their team...I've said numerous times that I love their dedication. It's awesome. That SI article made my room in the mansion a little dusty.

But....

Patriots fans are so condescending to other teams. Especially their AFC rivals. Maybe they've earned it, but personally a great 3 year stretch doesn't earn you the right to be arrogant. Hopefully that Miami game brought them down a few notches.

[Snake]

I'm serious, when was the last Hench reference in an article? Plus I'm sure he'd rather take Manny and Ortiz, no one likes the Pats more than the Red Sox.

[fiskyfiskstein]

actually, some people DO like the pats more than the sox. I have a cousin and a friend who are living proof.

This whole thread is misguided though. Two words: Salary Cap.

Two more words: Phantom Tag.

Two MORE: Grady Little.

Apples and Oranges. Did the sox get rules changed to make it easier to neutralize the yanks biggest advantage over them? (the pass interference rule). And finally, the patriots are not raging assholes. Far from it in fact. And yes, I am totally unbiased.