Patriots vs. Yankees

[Ubertrout]

Also, Pats fans aren't like Yankee fans. We don't walk around taunting the Colts about how long it's been since they won anything.

I think I brought this up in another thread. Anyway, it's not that the Pats fans are as bad as Yankee fans, because that would be physically impossible. It's that they're starting to display tendencies that are similar to those expressed by Yankee fans, such as the tendency to get extremely arrogant after every win. I hear Pats fans say stuff about how the other team never has or had a chance, how they're the best team ever (I'm not exaggerating, I hear this all the time), blah blah blah. And maybe that's not that far off the mark, but it still makes you an asshole if you go around bragging about it. Win with class. You were so good at that after you won the first Super Bowl. What the hell happened, winning more just made you more big-headed and arrogant? There's no reason to disrespect the teams the Pats beat. I'm not just talking about the Colts. But I've heard people badmouthing Pittsburgh (a team which, if you'll notice, displayed nothing but respect for the Patriots) and saying how no one gave them a chance against the Steelers, which, considering Pittsburgh was a 6 point underdog AT HOME, is completely ridiculous. You're not as bad as Yankee fans, not by a long shot. But what scares me is you're starting to go in that direction, and I don't think you want that any more than I want to see it.

Sidebar: Maryland, are you as worried about tonight as I am? I just hate Duke so frickin' much...I mean, I can take losing to Wake and Carolina, hell, even losing to NC State's not THAT bad, but...it's goddamn DUKE. Ugh.

[Tecmo Bo]

Who is disrespecting the Steelers? Or any other team? Certainly no one here. You're gonna get rotten eggs in every bunch, they usually stink the most so you notice them. Hell, there are even yankee fans who are half human (so I hear). Pats fans, as a rule, intensly dislike the Colts. If you don't understand why, i won't bother to try and explain.
The vast majority of Pats fans have a lot of respect for the Steelers, they know Pittsburgh was a good team, you don't go 16-1 (including the first round of the playoffs) as a 'lucky' team. Pats fans knew they COULD lose this game, they had already lost to the Steelers once. But Pats fans believed that they WOULDN'T lose. Especially after holding the Colts to only 3 points. That said, I know many pats fans who bristle at the suggestion the game was close. After the first two series for each team, Pats fans knew (believed) the game was theirs. Not over, but definitely theirs. If anything, this might be the SuperBowl that Pats fans treasure most. For one, a win would cement, undisputably, the Pats dynasty status. For another, the Pats wil have gone through what are undoubtedly the three toughest teams possible. The Colts with their high flying offense, the smash-mouth Steelers and their brutal D and the Eagles, the creme of the NFC crop (for what that's worth). There's also no talk of Tucks, balls touching unconscious receivers out of bounds, illegal contact or sub-par competition. Pats fans, by and large, respect the Eagles and Steelers (fuck Manning and the Colts), they just don't think the Pats can lose. With a 33-4 record the last two seasons, that's a hard perspective to argue with.

[nerf66]

I hate the pats. But hey, the team is good.....and what's the point of following a team if you can't brag? It brings fans together. Look at the browns.....section K9....those guys don't care if the browns are 0-8, they are still cheering and talking smack after a game. I have a buddy who roots for the bengals and even he talks shit (about what, I can never understand).

I'm a bears fan, and I live for the Packers/Bears game (what else is there now days for me besides the spaceship that landed in soldier field) and if the bears (or "w"e as I sometimes say) win, I let all the packers fans hear it. They come back with "yeah, but the bears are 2-8!" I fire back with "Thanks for letting us double up, ladies!". I also have to endure the phone calls from friends who aren't bears fans, but still try to be nice by saying: "hey, I saw that play that the bears made...that was a great touchdown....too bad they gave it away in the fourth quarter" or "Who's the bears QB right now?"........just writing that hurt. And then the follow up "who?".

It's simple: jealousy. Who wouldn't want their team to win a championship? and who wouldn't want championshipS? When you go on a run like the pats have, simply dominating the game (they looked so good against the Colts and the Steelers is was sickening...and I expect the same in the superbowl) you can't help but be jealous. I want the bears to have a team as good as New England's. I want to sit back on Sunday and know that it's in the bag.....that the bears may lose one or two over the corse of the season, but that they are getting a bye and are going to be 3 point favorites on the road in the NFC championship game. and when the bears do have a string of seasons like that (2045-2048), you can expect that I'm going to be letting everyone know how they are doing.

So Pats fans - enjoy it. Talk shit. Your Patriots have earned you the right.

[Tecmo Bo]

Thanks Nerf. I think I heard you complain about hwo when the Bears won the SB, people scoffed sayign it was 'only' the Pats and trying to knock down your team. Pats fans also try to lift up that Bears team because at least then they lost to a great team. No matter how you look at it, those were the two teams that got there, the best of the NFL, there should never be any shame suggested or saying 'only' the AFC Champs.

[Patty Mac]

The one thing that I dont think has been brought up when comparing Pats and Yankees fans is the Brady-Jeter comparison. I ask my Boston friends about Jeter and they say he is a pretty boy with little true skill. I say "ya, but hes got the rings", and they say " ya well hes still a pretty boy and I hate him". Yet ask Boston fans about Brady, and he is spoken of as a godsend, when in reality the same arguments made for Brady are made for Jeter in many cases. They both have pretty boy stereotypes, they both are wildly successful, and they both have less than spectacular stats. This was probably the first conversation I had with a NE fan that made me think "geez, I wonder if these guys will start liking jeter and the yankees".

[Snake]

Real Boston fans have all grudgingly admitted that while we hate Jeter and he does swallow, he certainly plays the game the right way (as opposed to a certain N. Hamm who once played shortstop in Boston). Brady has many of the same qualities as Jeter, but he has one very important thing going in his favor which is that he doesn't play in pinstripes.

[TheWolf]

I've been discussing the Brady-Jeter comparison for a while. Personally, I hate Jeter more because of the way the media treats him than anything he does on the field. There's no doubt the guy plays the game the right way, and if you put him on the Sox, he'd probably be my favorite player. What I hate about him is how everything he does is treated by the media like it's the greatest thing that's ever happened. For example, the catch he made going into the stands against the Sox this year...clearly a fantastic catch, and it served its purpose in showing the difference between him and Nomar. But if I remember right, Pokey Reese made almost the exact same play in the same game, but he didn't end up in the stands and he's not Derek Jeter, so no one even talks about it while Jeter's is supposedly the play of the year. And when he goes into the hole and does his gay little pirouette throw, yeah it looks nice, but he has to make that play on a lot of balls that many shortstops would just get in front of and turn into routine plays. He may make the play look nice, but I've always thought his lack of range is the reason for it. Anyway, I didn't mean to ramble about why I hate Jeter. What I actually want to do is talk about the difference between him and Brady, and I think that lies in their respective roles. In football, everything feeds off the QB. So if you're the QB of a great team, you're looked at as the leader of that team, and the greatness therefore passes onto you. Baseball doesn't have a position like that. Jeter is unquestionably the leader of the Yankees, but leadership doesn't win games in baseball. Your shortstop can have the greatest attitude in the world, play the game with class, and try to push the team in the right direction, but he doesn't make a difference by himself. A quarterback can make that difference. That's why Brady deserves more credit for the Pats' success than Jeter does for the Yankees.

[Tecmo Bo]

The closest MLB comes to having a QB is probably the Catcher, he's in on every single play because he calls the pitches.

[Ubertrout]

Real Boston fans have all grudgingly admitted that while we hate Jeter and he does swallow, he certainly plays the game the right way (as opposed to a certain N. Hamm who once played shortstop in Boston).

This is another point. I've noticed a very bitter animosity among a lot of Sox fans towards ANYONE that leaves town, whether they were traded or left as a free agent. It happens in some cases for every team in every sport (just ask Clipper fans about Lamar Odom and watch their faces...it's priceless!), but it seems to happen a lot more with Boston fans. I'm a big Sox fan myself (I don't root for any other NE teams, but DC had no baseball team, I loathe Peter Angelos, and I've got a family of New Englanders, so I've been a Sox fan since I was a little kid), and I don't share this. I dunno, maybe I've got a willingness to forgive and forget in some cases.

Just remember that despite whatever crap led to Nomar's departure, he was a great player in Boston for a long time, and helped out the team immeasurably while he was there. I know that a bitterness towards him now causes people to tilt stats, even though they loved the guy when he was in Beantown, but still: at least he didn't go to the Yankees.

What I hate about him is how everything he does is treated by the media like it's the greatest thing that's ever happened.

You're right. I hate this too. And while I wouldn't say the Brady-Jeter comparison is accurate (although I personally really dislike both of them), the media is starting to do this for Brady. They're not nearly at the worshipful Jeter-level yet, but they're getting there.

And the whole point about this is that it's not about the bragging or the talking smack, because that's all in good fun. It's about a certain righteous arrogance that the Yankee fans have that makes me want to punch every single damn last one of them, and while Pats fans aren't nearly there yet (so the comparison really isn't fair), it's looking like they're heading in that direction. And that scares me.

[Tecmo Bo]

You certainly do see some players get hated, but it depends on the circumstances and the team they go to.
Circumstances that will get you booed/ripped after leaving (with examples)...
-Going to a NY team, either one, though with the Mets it's on a case by case basis. (Tony Clark, probably not Mientkiewicz)
-Saying it's not about the money, then making it clear it was about the money. (Clemens, Mo Vaughn)
-Being a stud before you come to boston, then sucking once you get here (you get boooed while on the team and it carries over to after you've left) (Jose Awfulman)
-Ripping the team after you leave. (Shea Hillenbrand)
-Acting like a bitch while you're on the team. (Carl Everett, Nomar Garciaparra)

Nomar was a great player for a lot of years, but he was a grade A a-hole in 2004 and he ate up his good will really, really fast. For me, i heard him call into a radio station while he was on his honeymoon and put in his two cents about the A-rod thing. How he had been disrespected, how no contract extension had ever been offered to him and he only found out about the A-Rod deal that day. I felt really bad for him and was pissed at ownership. The next day, you find out it was all a lie. Ownership had offered him a pretty generous extension before the 03 season and another after the 03 season and had told him they were exploring the A-rod talks. My first thought, right that moment...
"Now I have to turn my back to you..."

[Ubertrout]

Still, though, you have to admit: at least he didn't go to the Yankees.

[Patty Mac]

Brady is definitely reaching a jeter like level of praise, if he hasnt already eclipsed it. Everyone on ESPN now talks about him as the greatest clutch quarterback of all time. Salisbury will spend 10 minutes talking about how he is the greatest QB of all time. People are saying he is a 100%, no doubt about it Hall of Famer.

Without question Brady's 3-4 year run here is amazing. And no, he has never really played bad in a big game...no where even close to bad really. But does 3 or four years on top really make you the best ever? I mean for christs sakes, Kurt Warner put up stats 10 times huger than Tom's and went to two super bowls, winning one of them. He had a pretty good 3 year run. I know Brady is way behind Warner in accomplishments, but I just have a little trouble comparing someone to all time greats based on a 4 year run.

[Tecmo Bo]

I know Brady is way behind Warner in accomplishments

I'm going to take it for granted that you got the two names reversed by accident.
4 years is not enough to get one guy into the HoF, but does anyone see a reason why Brady's performance should slip? Any reason why he cannot continue to be as good as he has been?
That's part of the presumption when people call him a HoFer, that he will continue to play well. Though being the youngest ever SB MVP, one of only 4 players to win multiple SB MVP's and having the possibility of being only the second player to win 3 SB MVP's (in only four seasons), undefeated in playoff games and in overtime... all before he turns 30, is pretty damn unprecedented.

[Patty Mac]

I know Brady is way behind Warner in accomplishments

ya mix up I am an idiot

though warner did have to suffer through Martz and Vermeil, which considering his success, is a pretty big accomplishment you could say

[Tecmo Bo]

Warner had some insane supplemental offensive players to work with though (ala Rectum). Brady has been the only offensive Pro-Bowler other than Brown who got in once.